effectiveness of older heroes passive decrease exponentially with new gear.

[HenryChinaski]

Grand Challenge aren't bot teams. It's players teams, similar to crusade...
I have faced guild members there and it just represents the current meta.
TF, IE, CMDR, Mani, HN, DV are just most used heroes in top rankings... Then also CA, Griffin, DM now, SH...

I can see in Arena and so also in GC the variations become more a bit now.

Top players have focused on those first and now have time to invest in others...

That's said, I still agree some over works on older heroes would be good.
But also said, this needs to be well balanced

Otherwise it will end up same. Let's say PK becomes superstrong.. Then everyone will get and use him.

Some actual heroes become really good only from red or even red1 on... DM is getting popular as she also doing great in Arena at r1.
Against some setups Bear Warrior is great.... Lightbringer was a joke before o2, SH wasn't really much used, etc, etc..

What I just say: many players just follow the meta, ignoring other heroes, but I think some could be great at red/r1 already now.

Although, as said, in certain cases over works would be great, if not really good balanced (and that's not really the strength of ucool) it will end up in a few getting really good, many people concentrate on those again and all use similar teams again.

And might complain why (just for example) professional killer suddenly is so strong and they have to gear him up from maybe purple (if even).
So basically same as getting a brand new hero... (except you might have him 5* already)

[kenzoblu]

There are just too many heroes that need tweak as I went through all of them (i have all the heroes at Orange or higher)

Main problem is that most of the heroes are single function, tank without damage or damage without survivability VS the new heroes with both functions.

Old tanks have comically low damage skills ranging from 500-750 damage, but griffin's wings sweep have 5500 damage!

i will add other suggestions when i have time, these are the current list.

Psychic Sword
Not enough survivability/damage for a hero that will surely end up in the opponents back row.
Major improvement: Increase G-skill Kinetic Bolt Damage, own basic damage, HP & armor (right now only same as Hidden needle which we all know is killed easily unless with shield on)
Minor improvement: Scale B-skill Inspire terror and P-skill rally better with levelling (400 points damage buff was 10% at Orange, yet only 7% at Red+1)

Sniper
Single target dealer yet not enough damage.
Major improvement: Increase US Skill damage and not target clones (with a sniper scope, you cannot even differentiate clones from real ones?)
Rework G-skill Stunning shot, change it to 70% chance stun + bonus damage (decent chance since physical attacks still do miss) to activate with every normal attack, gaining 50 extra energy if activated. (a sniper to nails a head shot will just fire away without need to re adjust his aim)
Minor improvement: Improve accuracy, (he is a god damn SNIPER)

Pilot
Backline physical damage dealer, you can improve yet you choose release Troll princess…
Major Improvement: US Firebomb become homing, increase AOE. (it is already quite weak damage and can be dodged, it might still hit empty areas.)
Increase B-skill Air strike damage, (it is just now feeding enemy energy)

Ferryman
A damage dealer that gets stronger when a hero dies on the battlefield, but sadly he is usually the first to die.
Major Improvement: Increase US and G-skill damage
Legendary skill: Give it an ability to add physical and magic power when a clone dies on battlefield (max 3 clones)

Forest Guardian
Massive AOE magic dealer that does not enough damage and dies too fast
Major Improvement: Increase HP and magic power
Minor Improvement: Increase armor

Wandering Spearman
Middle line powerful damage dealer, tanky enough but doesn’t do enough damage
Major Improvement: Increase US blood pact bonus damage gain, increase G-skill Sacrifice DOT damage, improve B-skill healing amount

Lightning Master
Major Improvement: Increase B-skill Overload damage and target lowest HP enemy.

Ice mage
A joke of a legendary skill
Major Improvement: Increase US damage, increase B-skill AOE area, improve Legendary skill damage absorption and make it able to slow its attackers.

Mountain
Major improvement: P-Skill stone skin to be able to stun his physical attackers (50% chance)

Deathgore
Major improvement: Increase HP, increase B-skill damage (now 650?!? Wtf).

Shallows Keeper
Major improvement: increase g-skill armor reduction value, increase B-skill damage (now 720??) & AOE (to be 80% of Griffin B-skill (5500??!!??! Wtf))

Brute
Major improvement: increase B-skill damage (now 744 ??!?), increase bloodcurse damage, (seriously 3255 hp over 10 secs? Other new heroes does more in 1 hit.)

Ancient Protector
Major improvement: Able to re-summon his shooter plants

Iron Hoof
Major improvement: increase his US damage please, it is comically low. Increase g-skill stomp stun aoe.

[kman]

The simple solution is creating better legendary skills.

[Emandv]

The simple solution is creating better legendary skills.

But it needs to go beyond that

[tamastoth82]

Only legendary updates will not solve it. Compare heroes of today (OP ones) to heroes of the past.
They (or their individual skills one by one) usually only do one thing. Today's heroes have 2-3 things in one skill, or do AoE or full screen effects.
If you took away the immunity, blind and stun from TF, he would be nothing.
If you took away the tanky or damage part of griffin, he would be nothing.
If you took away the all screen ult of CA, he would be nothing.
If you took away the stun effect from Manip and instead it drained energy, she would be nothing.

The list could go on.

[Vasaro]

Too many heroes need tweaking.
Old heroes too much single target, but their single target damage is less than new heroes' AoE damage on each hero.....

[azizstorm]

Thanks for bringing this up Emandv. Please reply to this thread if anyone would like to comment on this suggestion.

MOST if not ALL old heroes are been ignored now and Ucool am sure they wont do anything about it they are busy making new heroes so ppl use Gems to buy them why fix something you already own that will cost them money without gaining anything because your prob got the old heroes 5* so you wont buy ss for them or gear them coz you got lots of left over gear with you

bottom line is that you can forget that Ucool will fix the old heroes so just forget it and delete this whole topic

[Hill]

Excellent thread... I remember when I first started playing and if I came across iron hoof in arena I would stay away from it, now you don't even see him in arena. The other day in GC I had to fight a team with 5 Frontline heroes? Imo a team like that should get destroyed by dmg dealers, might take a while but shouldn't be much of a contest. Tanks are supposed to be beefy and take damage not so much deliver it. Like many others on this thread please quit putting out new heroes and fix what you have.

[PiripiP]

Ember/Betty, read this thread and your players' suggestions..

[Accell]

If they just copy-paste that old characters from their original game it could be balanced already

[Evangelos]

Ember do you read this lol?

[King_83]

Only legendary updates will not solve it. Compare heroes of today (OP ones) to heroes of the past.
They (or their individual skills one by one) usually only do one thing. Today's heroes have 2-3 things in one skill, or do AoE or full screen effects.
If you took away the immunity, blind and stun from TF, he would be nothing.
If you took away the tanky or damage part of griffin, he would be nothing.
If you took away the all screen ult of CA, he would be nothing.
If you took away the stun effect from Manip and instead it drained energy, she would be nothing.

The list could go on.

And I will attest to this, let me add more:

If QoC didn't have swap skill, or magic crit/restore Ally HP to her ult she would be nothing
If you take away CK ult aborbtion away he's nothing but a meat shiel
If DL ult does only a fraction of what it does now, he would be nothing
If Commdr ult hits clones, she wouldn't be as viable, still good but not great like she is now, hence that would work in CW favor as he's nowhere near what he was pre O- O+2

[TootsieRoll]

Ember,

Ucool should also consider restructuring hero bonus abilities based on historical advantage. For example, Admiral should have distinct advantage against sea heroes, the Cleric should have advantage against undead heroes, Dwarf heroes should have an advantage against stone heroes, etc. The developers have gone this way with Rose Fencer and Succ legendary skill; they should extend the thought throughout the pantheon.

[Twogo]

Cloud Walker - miss a lot have poor dmg and his further clone just block in the mid line of the opponent's heros and die instantly.
Chaplean - poor healing. At red +1 6k heal if poor as long as you think at o+0 is 4.5k. Her skill with the stick is pathetic (DMG and animation) Her stick do like 3k max dmg.Maybe some critical healing is usefull.
Master mage - Change the exile skill. Who want to be exiled in a PvP battle without no dmg? Answer : the enemy that will win because of the timeout.
Nature storm - with the new gear. Her stats are so low..maybe a remake or increase her damage or dodge. Her survavility is lower then sapper and now she can be killed easly.
Crossed knight - His shield is ok but he just stay with his shield where he cast her ulti because he will protect forever because of a clone or something that long time gone from there. + some more damage should be ok.
Griffin - have some times when he do not retarget and just ulti or throw his eggs into the wrong way with no clone turtle ninja or sapper there ( his eggs..really? make him female)
Old curse - his Dot can't kill easy can be intrerupted poor health . For him i recomand or to increase his damage or HP or to make him deale holy magic damage.
Frost mage - all her stats are week at o+2 or red. Maybe change the stats of her or make her ulti more versatible. Can she throw 2 ice balls 1 that can go behind the enemy line like commander's charge and keep the other to hit in front?
Drunken Master - Miss a lot. Big Hp but poor damage. I think he is blind when he cast his blindness skill or my ninja wear sun-glasses. Increase his damage and made him less intrerupted. Is a tank make him strong not just a meatball without hat..
Mystic - After o+0 his ulti don t kill anything. Just make him deale more damage with his ulti and will be ok.
War chief - is no longer used because he revives when there is nothing to do. He dies slowly..even his heros that are behind die faster..Maybe lower his hp and at rebirth give him full hp and armor class skills
Wind master - Increase her damage and dodge.I didn t add succumbus here because is ok. WM isn t.
Psihopath - Can you increase the hp on this guy? Is an off tank with poor hp. At o+2 can be killed like purple..
Robot prime - Just his ulti must be remaked.
wondering spearman - Increase his damage and make him immune to intrerupt when he ulti. He just throw champaln sticks and deal the same damage like her.
Shadow shaman - increase the damage and the bless skill to absorb more damage and make him ulti faster
Iron hoof - increase him damage overall
Deathknight - Increase the heal he will absorbs from the damage he dealed and his damage.
Pilot - increase his damage overall
Dworf warrior - He miss a lot. His damage is poor. 30k at o+2 with a miss chance..
Tursked Storm - Increase his damage, hp and his buffing skills.
Brute - increase his damage and let his ulti as long as he have the oportunity not just 10% hp. He is worst then Dworf Warrior.
Ice mage - Increase her damage and hp. Her ulti at red +1 do like 3k / hit. Letting some heros to charge faster and to destroy her with her legenday.
Sniper - make him shot all the targets with all his skills and increase the damage and the miss rate.
Lightening Master - Increase his damage and the stun effects should stay at least 4 seconds.
Forest guardian - Increase his damage and HP
Warrior monk - increase his stun time do be at least 3 seconds for each increase his hp and his damge .
Mountain - add a stun ability to every skill increase his damage and his hp
Proffesional killer - Make him immune to intrerupting add more damage and hp ( he full his hp because his skills heal more then his life) and make him do not miss ( what professional is that? )
Ice spirit - incerease his damage and the silence skill shoud be permanent
Ferryman - More damage more hp (give him a change for 5 vs 1 he have all the "death skills" and he do poor damage worst then ice mage )
Psihic Sword - make her immune to psihical damage let her play with the battlefield ( if you do that just increase her hp and the damage she will deal)
Deathgore - increase his damage his hp and poison thouse spikes he have. Make his do DoT damage not just staying there and die
Storm lord - increase his damage and his hp
Ninph of sea - She have a bug with her bubbles. The enemy still do somehow his abilities and the ulti. Increase her damage
Cat fancer - increase his damage and hp.
Ancient protesctor - increase his damage hp of him and the plants and let him summon them as long as he have energy.
Lunar Guardian - Her name is still Loreth but is no more a female. Increase his hp and the damage.

U have bad ideas bro, but two or one are good.

[queensline]

Hi Ember, please respond already.