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Thread: Thoughts on heroes at level 90

  1. #76
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    I'd like to add some info about non mentioned heroes, some of them, even if are not that common, deserve some words:

    Lightning Elemental: with his legendary skill, his uprising has come. I see a lot of people leaving him 4* to make him more squishy and to be sure he will be the first dead hero, paired with Phoenix and 1-2 CC (let's say DV and VS) really is a problem. 5 seconds before Phoenix ulti he dies, drains all the energy you heroes have accumulated and phoenix burns your team alive without any chance to response. Is a very good counter to almost every VW+EB team (i know that coz i built almost every combination of VW+EB teams and I've kinda always been smashed by this), dunno if it works also again others.

    Necromancer: I don't like him that much, but doubtless he ensure a good boost to VW+EB teams, giving a good amount of magic resistance to the whole team, allowing your heroes to defend against the common commando+4 casters counter. It's above all a surprise effect hero coz no one knows how really it works, since he is not that common.

    Some tips on what you wrote:
    -IH is not that bad as you wrote, he is the only hero that makes HN being viable in a defensive team in arena and against certain teams I consider him a better tank than Admiral, just to say that "Admiral eclipses him" imho is not that correct.

    -CW actually is not that easy to counter, you can also put him as "frontline" while waiting for VW entrance if you also play L Mystic that ensure's him a great magic defense boost. In a VW+CW+L Mystic+X+Y (where x and y must stand behind CW), he is hit by the whole opponent team until VW will come, he charges so fast his US and with a bit of luck he does an easy kill (he can avoid EB shield since he does physical damage) or drops so much opponent's tank's life. The only problem is DV, but if behind CW you put a couple of good casters she won't be that scary. I still consider him a must in arena, clones give him an incredible ability to survive, and don't forget that going to time out will mean victory to you defending.
    [Tao] Zophiel - Team Level: 90 - Guild: Tao (Officer) - Server: 31, Kron

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by glitteringlust View Post
    It still incosistent if silencer burst put ultimate and eb survive the initial burst
    With DM OC FM Mach Commando, EB does not survive initial burst ever.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zophiel View Post
    I'd like to add some info about non mentioned heroes, some of them, even if are not that common, deserve some words:

    Lightning Elemental: with his legendary skill, his uprising has come. I see a lot of people leaving him 4* to make him more squishy and to be sure he will be the first dead hero, paired with Phoenix and 1-2 CC (let's say DV and VS) really is a problem. 5 seconds before Phoenix ulti he dies, drains all the energy you heroes have accumulated and phoenix burns your team alive without any chance to response. Is a very good counter to almost every VW+EB team (i know that coz i built almost every combination of VW+EB teams and I've kinda always been smashed by this), dunno if it works also again others.

    Necromancer: I don't like him that much, but doubtless he ensure a good boost to VW+EB teams, giving a good amount of magic resistance to the whole team, allowing your heroes to defend against the common commando+4 casters counter. It's above all a surprise effect hero coz no one knows how really it works, since he is not that common.

    Some tips on what you wrote:
    -IH is not that bad as you wrote, he is the only hero that makes HN being viable in a defensive team in arena and against certain teams I consider him a better tank than Admiral, just to say that "Admiral eclipses him" imho is not that correct.

    -CW actually is not that easy to counter, you can also put him as "frontline" while waiting for VW entrance if you also play L Mystic that ensure's him a great magic defense boost. In a VW+CW+L Mystic+X+Y (where x and y must stand behind CW), he is hit by the whole opponent team until VW will come, he charges so fast his US and with a bit of luck he does an easy kill (he can avoid EB shield since he does physical damage) or drops so much opponent's tank's life. The only problem is DV, but if behind CW you put a couple of good casters she won't be that scary. I still consider him a must in arena, clones give him an incredible ability to survive, and don't forget that going to time out will mean victory to you defending.
    That lightning Elemental team I haven't seen.

    A few people have started dabbling with Necromancer, but not enough for any conclusions to be drawn.

    IH has been eclipsed by Admiral, he's not as good as her on the mixed offensive team and that team is dominating my server

    CW's biggest weakness is EB, who is everywhere, and Mystic is no help there. I find I can beat any CW team by using the most appropriate counter while replacing something with EB:

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thecasualoblivion View Post
    That lightning Elemental team I haven't seen.

    A few people have started dabbling with Necromancer, but not enough for any conclusions to be drawn.

    IH has been eclipsed by Admiral, he's not as good as her on the mixed offensive team and that team is dominating my server

    CW's biggest weakness is EB, who is everywhere, and Mystic is no help there. I find I can beat any CW team by using the most appropriate counter while replacing something with EB:
    In my server is going to be...well, if not common, for sure known coz someone with a lot of money (and heroes) tried it out, found it somewhat useful and now is spreading out. In my top 50 at least 2-3 people use him, I bet his usage will grow, at least in my server.

    Talking about defense maybe I can say you're right (even if, as I said, if I wanna put HN in defense I just need IH), but in attacking setups I could prefer IH against people who defend with a team based on huge starting burst damage, I could prefer him against OC, I could prefer him if I need to run 4 casters. Being eclipsed means he is useless compared to her, IMHO it's not correct. It's just my opinion obviously, but I wanted to share.

    EB is his biggest weakness...why? I don't get this point, if not the fact that CW's clones fills EB's hp when the red bear does his slashing attack. If that's the point, clones of course have advantages and disadvantages, but EB most of the times dies coz of super early CW's US, fastly charged coz he is the frontline since VW comes in play. Btw I don't wanna say how much good is that kind of team, I don't agree if you say: he has a lot of counters. Only DV is a pain for his skill, the rest of the time he always provides good damage, good supports due to clones and he stays alive with much more ease thanks to Mystic. I find him very hard to put down.
    [Tao] Zophiel - Team Level: 90 - Guild: Tao (Officer) - Server: 31, Kron

  5. #80
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    I never encountered a defense team with CW that gave me any trouble, it's usually an easy win when you use eb.

    For your attack team I agree CW can be very useful.
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by [BG]Archon View Post
    I never encountered a defense team with CW that gave me any trouble, it's usually an easy win when you use eb.

    For your attack team I agree CW can be very useful.
    I use CW in defense in several setups (full physical and mixed) since 2 months and I've never encountered that much problems against EB in particular. Don't sincerely know why, but I don't have points to not trust you and oblivion about this. There should be something that is going out of my comprehension, I'd like to be enlightened.
    [Tao] Zophiel - Team Level: 90 - Guild: Tao (Officer) - Server: 31, Kron

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zophiel View Post
    I use CW in defense in several setups (full physical and mixed) since 2 months and I've never encountered that much problems against EB in particular. Don't sincerely know why, but I don't have points to not trust you and oblivion about this. There should be something that is going out of my comprehension, I'd like to be enlightened.
    In short, CW clones give too much energy and HP to EB.
    Write your defense and I'll write the counter using EB and why it works
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thecasualoblivion View Post
    A few people have started dabbling with Necromancer, but not enough for any conclusions to be drawn.
    I have him p+4 5* and I must say, he's not that bad, if exile hits the right target, and something like Machinist or IE nukes it, it's massive damage. Even the shout does pretty good damage. The ultimate is not that great, since it's interruptible but the added life does help. And of course the elephant in the room, the exile can screw you over. Like when WC is about to do a power strike with no one else around.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by [BG]Archon View Post
    In short, CW clones give too much energy and HP to EB.
    Write your defense and I'll write the counter using EB and why it works
    Countering teams on the paper is not the same as countering them in game, I can suppose something works while it doesn't work in real tests. Btw:
    VW-CW-Machinist-Silencer-L Mystic.

    In a week of testing, EB hasn't represented a huge problem, max 1 ult cast, sometimes he doesn't live enough to say "hello".
    [Tao] Zophiel - Team Level: 90 - Guild: Tao (Officer) - Server: 31, Kron

  10. #85
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    The issue with EB and CW is that EB's purple consists of a series of small area attacks. When you give extra attacks via clones it also hits those in the immediate area additional times. It not only increases EB energy and life steal, it also means more damage to your non-clone heroes. That's why whenever I see CW in defense I squeeze EB onto whatever counter I'm using.

    Also, you're looking at this too narrowly, on the team with VW. I will squeeze EB onto any team to counter CW, not just the VW team. EB doesn't require synergy, he can do his thing on just about any team anywhere. For example, I often use the following teams:

    Admiral FD Silencer Machinist Mystic
    Admiral/IH AS LG HN Commando
    IH OC FM Machinist Mystic
    Panda DV CW VS SL
    DM OC FM Machinist Commando

    If there is a CW on the other team, I will replace something with EB on all of those teams.

  11. #86
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    I will admit I'm somewhat intrigued by CW as tank and CW replacing EB on the VW team, but I haven't seen those in play or tested them much at all. The key for me is that whatever combination would need to win more than 0% vs Admiral FD Silencer Machinst Mystic to even consider using on defense in GA.

  12. #87
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    Does ninja + Dk chap DB cleric formation work well for arena/garena ?

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by anjerit View Post
    Does ninja + Dk chap DB cleric formation work well for arena/garena ?
    should be works well, I'm interest to know counter for healer team as well.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeyang2 View Post
    should be works well, I'm interest to know counter for healer team as well.
    Counter for healer team is either Ninja plus whatever or VW/EB+3 physical.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thecasualoblivion View Post
    With DM OC FM Mach Commando, EB does not survive initial burst ever.
    Do they all have to be orange? Can Mystic fit in in place of one of them? Sometimes even when EB dies, I still lose especially when SIL casts his ult.

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