Dream team

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You said sapper does 0 damage and from what you say, he dies because he does 0 damage.
Blind is not really that much of an issue when the pile he will jump to contains 3 mages and panda is not a good solo tank at higher levels.

You said that VW is unable to stun heroes with the team you posted which was oc-dm-fm-mac-comm, hence the pic.

4v5 with your team crowded in one area and the other team having good aoe skills is not always an advantage.
Doing the highest damage doesn't mean he is the key to winning, otherwise a team with EB/VS/FD/MAC would be the best team because they usually deal the highest damage.

I never said you leave silencer out, I said you left his energy drain out and you said silencer cannot US silence which isn't really an issue to any vw teams.
Silencer is good not that much because of his US but because of his normal skills.

You don't depend on just deaths to fill energy bars. 4/5 of your team losing 180 energy will mean the other team will always US first.
Also, I didn't say it screws an entire team over, just that the other team will US first
You should read my post before posting, especially since thats just me and not two different people.

1) No, sapper does no damage when he attacks and is dodged from being blinded. Almost had me there.

2) I use that combo all the time and i said depends on the enemy team. If you overpower them and push farther forward because your team is stronger and move that extra inch then duh.

3) No one said "doing the highest damage is the best". I did say EB is a DAMAGE DEALER and since he is he DOES THE MOST DAMAGE... maybe i was unclear on that. When you sacrifice a high damage dealer to "hold a spot" then have your other front liner die because the enemy team now has more energy and slaughters him too there is no advantage and no damage.

4) I wish you would be silent about silencer because being wrong over and over again is getting old...

5) lastly 180 energy MAKES NO DIFFERENCE when you have slaughtered two enemies on the enemy team and YOUR TEAM GAINS 300 energy for each of their deaths per person who dealt the killing blow. So you have 300 bonus energy per hero, and two more heroes than the opponent. Please tell me in what world you are at a disadvantage? How will the enemy team get the drop on you? How will they ult when they are taking constant damage from the opposing teams 5 heroes pounding on their faces?... Exactly.

And if you had thought about any of the above 5 posts i just made and rationalized it you would realize that this is the last time i will repeat myself because you are close to trolling now.

[AlexSch-]

Actually if you use EB and VW as your front line and any other mix of any other heroes on your team it doesnt matter who they are that team is so easily countered it becomes the funniest thing ive ever seen.

DM, OC, FM, Comm and Mach;
Enemy comes out and EB gets stunned. He then takes initial damage from the rest of the team. He now has no magic shield and is already weak against magic. Following attacks from OC and mach he is attack stunned and stands there taking further damage from the bonus attack speed from Comm. By now the final attack is OC delivering a fatal Flame Strike to EB and the third line and possibly even to VW as he now uselessly approaches. EB then falls on his back dealing 0 damage and explodes. By the time VW has come out he hits no one (since you have no front liner) and his damage is cut in half. Again since he hits no one on his draw, he loses his first attack and the beginning of his control. Seconds later he gets evaporated by Mach's Ult melting VW and usually the third and possibly damaging or killing the fourth hero in the enemy team's lineup resulting in little to no damage received. The lineup is then a 3v5 / 2v5 with a and you have a full energy bar DM. She starts to cast her life sucking death ray. By the time the enemy has any time to react (even if they have silencer) there isn't enough time or remaining heroes to deal enough damage to even injure DM. She heals to full life and the enemy team falls to your feet having dealt less than 1/4 of JUST ONE of your heroes damage.

HORRIBLE team make up. Anyone who uses that team as a defense is asking to sit at the bottom of the charts.

your right if you focus ur team that much around killing eb asap he will die instantly ... sadly enemy cw will kill all ur mid range heroes with his ultimate

[sleeplaz]

1) No, sapper does no damage when he attacks and is dodged from being blinded. Almost had me there.

2) I use that combo all the time and i said depends on the enemy team. If you overpower them and push farther forward because your team is stronger and move that extra inch then duh.

3) No one said "doing the highest damage is the best". I did say EB is a DAMAGE DEALER and since he is he DOES THE MOST DAMAGE... maybe i was unclear on that. When you sacrifice a high damage dealer to "hold a spot" then have your other front liner die because the enemy team now has more energy and slaughters him too there is no advantage and no damage.

4) I wish you would be silent about silencer because being wrong over and over again is getting old...

5) lastly 180 energy MAKES NO DIFFERENCE when you have slaughtered two enemies on the enemy team and YOUR TEAM GAINS 300 energy for each of their deaths per person who dealt the killing blow. So you have 300 bonus energy per hero, and two more heroes than the opponent. Please tell me in what world you are at a disadvantage? How will the enemy team get the drop on you? How will they ult when they are taking constant damage from the opposing teams 5 heroes pounding on their faces?... Exactly.

And if you had thought about any of the above 5 posts i just made and rationalized it you would realize that this is the last time i will repeat myself because you are close to trolling now.

1) Blind is not 100% miss

2) You said all teams

3) Only one person will get energy

4) ...

5) Why would you have killed 2 enemies, who else besides EB died. Also, only the hero that lands the kill gets 300, not the whole team so your point is moot.
Its not like the opposing team stops attacking just that eb is dead why would that you have "constant damage", at most it would be 5v4, and commando isn't really much of a damage dealer.

[Thecasualoblivion]

Phoenix does do decent damage and its not really that unusual a combo on my server.
Probably because even if eb doesn't die, the opposing team will move in during eb's PS attack, grouping them even closer together for more aoe damage.

There are also other options like LS and succubus which stand behind silencer too, although those are still rarely seen for now.

Phoenix does deal good damage, but he's clunky and too random for my tastes. A lot can go wrong with Phoenix. I've seen Phoenix on these teams but it's by no means common.

[Thecasualoblivion]

1) Blind is not 100% miss

2) You said all teams

3) Only one person will get energy

4) ...

5) Why would you have killed 2 enemies, who else besides EB died. Also, only the hero that lands the kill gets 300, not the whole team so your point is moot.
Its not like the opposing team stops attacking just that eb is dead why would that you have "constant damage", at most it would be 5v4, and commando isn't really much of a damage dealer.

VW doesn't die but unless you're running that Phoenix team he doesn't accomplish anything. He doesn't stun, doesn't push, and his basic attack hits only DM instead of hitting a whole group because the clump never happens. OC gets the 300 energy for killing EB since he hits last and will likely freeze before your team ultis. With EB dead and VW useless(even if he Ultis he hits Commando with it and I could care less) even if you ulti first and don't get interrupted by frozen my Machinist and FM still kill you.

[Avatar]

VW doesn't die but unless you're running that Phoenix team he doesn't accomplish anything. He doesn't stun, doesn't push, and his basic attack hits only DM instead of hitting a whole group because the clump never happens. OC gets the 300 energy for killing EB since he hits last and will likely freeze before your team ultis. With EB dead and VW useless(even if he Ultis he hits Commando with it and I could care less) even if you ulti first and don't get interrupted by frozen my Machinist and FM still kill you.

Exactly.
Thanks.

[Thecasualoblivion]

image.jpg

My Machinist killed EB and got the energy. VW missed his opening charge. My Machinist ulti'd first and OC right after. The opposing Machinist did ulti next but got frozen after only one shot.

This is how it goes, I do this every day to people who leave that team out on defense.

[sleeplaz]

VW doesn't die but unless you're running that Phoenix team he doesn't accomplish anything. He doesn't stun, doesn't push, and his basic attack hits only DM instead of hitting a whole group because the clump never happens. OC gets the 300 energy for killing EB since he hits last and will likely freeze before your team ultis. With EB dead and VW useless(even if he Ultis he hits Commando with it and I could care less) even if you ulti first and don't get interrupted by frozen my Machinist and FM still kill you.

So basically this counters the fm/mac teams with a near 100% rate but not as much the nix/mystic teams due to positions.

[Thecasualoblivion]

So basically this counters the fm/mac teams with a near 100% rate but not as much the nix/mystic teams due to positions.

It counters any VW team except Phoenix/Mystic, apparently. It might still win anyway, RNG being what it is. I'm not convinced the picture you posted wasn't luck.

[sleeplaz]

It counters any VW team except Phoenix/Mystic, apparently. It might still win anyway, RNG being what it is. I'm not convinced the picture you posted wasn't luck.

The picture can't be based on luck, its based on position which is not depend on RNG
It doesn't counter all vw teams, like for example my vw team with necro because you won't be able to burst eb down with the initial attacks

[Thecasualoblivion]

The picture can't be based on luck, its based on position which is does not depend on RNG
It doesn't counter all vw teams, like for example my vw team with necro because you won't be able to burst eb down with the initial attacks

What are you talking about? VW/EB is a speed offense team, why would you ever run Necro on it? It's a bad defensive team, you're talking about making it marginally less bad when you could just run a good defensive team instead.

[sleeplaz]

What are you talking about? VW/EB is a speed offense team, why would you ever run Necro on it? It's a bad defensive team, you're talking about making it marginally less bad when you could just run a good defensive team instead.

Necro's aoe GS is one of the highest small aoe magic in game.
Necro's exile increases the damage of all magic attacks so I'll usually be able to kill/heavily damage one hero after one round of aoe.
Necro is basically a weaker dps version of mac but with much better support skills.
Also, there isn't much defensive teams there aren't weak to VW teams

[Thecasualoblivion]

Necro's exile skill increases the damage of all magic attacks so I'll usually be able to kill/heavily damage one hero after one round of aoe.
Necro's aoe GS is one of the highest small aoe magic in game.
Also, there isn't much defensive teams there aren't weak to VW teams

Anything with commando...

[sleeplaz]

Anything with commando...

Commando without pure mage team is no threat to vw-eb teams, unless they have lots of RNG luck

[Thecasualoblivion]

Commando without pure mage team is no threat to vw-eb teams, unless they have lots of RNG luck

This is the point where I stop talking to you as if you knew what you were talking about. VW teams are very sketchy versus generic offensive teams with Commando. Sketchy enough to avoid them.