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Thread: Guild raid system needs to change

  1. #1
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    Guild raid system needs to change

    Hello,

    As title suggests, I think that the system working behind opening/resetting raids needs to be changed.
    Indeed, raids cost a lot to reset (40 0000, 50 000 ...) while capped to 200 000 and 600/player/day, for a maximum total of 30 000/day for a guild.

    I get it that raids should not be spammable since it brings money and stuff so there needs to be mechanics to guarantee a "fair" use of them.
    However, there are already limits : you can only do each chapter 2x/day, even if it's resetted the same day after you did your runs.
    Also, raids that provide good items at your level are usually pretty long to complete so the resetting is not a problem for them.
    The problem lies in lower level raids : once you can finish them within 2-3 days (like chapter 7 and 8 most of the time) and if you can run chapters 9-10-11 (not even talking for raids 13-14), well, you just can't afford to open those raids anymore.

    Now, why's that ? Why limiting that ? For the items ? At that level, you don't really care about those crap loots.
    For the money ? Yeah it would bring "a lot" of money at that level. But guess what ? At that level, you already earn tons of money and almost have too much to the point you don't know what to do with it. Especially with hard crusade + VIP 10.
    So why is there this limit ?
    Maybe for guild coins ? Well, it could be the true reason but Ancient Temples added a few already and you already get from higher level chapters but anyway, considering it's a problem, here are other solutions because raids are fun to do but 2x/day is not a lot to do, even less when you can only do 1-2 chapters instead of 4-5 ... (every suggestion is not totally separate and some can be combined to provide an even better system)

    1) Increasing contribution

    That's what a lot of people are asking on this forum. Increasing contribution of each player from 600 to 800 (as in Chinese version so it seems, I don't know that fact).
    Hummm ... yeah, that would allow a bit more but honestly, I don't find it to be a good solution, it's only short term one and we need a long term one. Later, people will be asking for 1000, then 1200 etc ...
    Not very good one thus.

    2) From personal contribution to general contribution

    What lies behind that strange title ? Well, currently it's capped to 600/player/day for a total of 30 000/day as I said.
    The idea would be to remove the limit by player. "Omg is he crazy ?"
    Nah, the limit would just be moved from "by player" to "by guild". Everybody would contribute limitless BUT the limit of contribution/day would only be 30 000/day/guid.

    The good :
    - A system fairer to guilds that cannot find enough active players to contribute for the maximum amount of contribution : a few overactive players would be able to make up for the lack of a few members (or lack of activity of a few members) because well, guilds can't all fill up every slot permanently.
    - A ceiling easier to achieve for more raids and more fun.
    - (for Ucool) : Does not increase the maximum obtainable so it does not creat inbalance in that regard.
    Also, it could encourage players to farm more stamina for contribution, thus giving Ucool even more money.

    The bad :
    - Well that could lead to a few players creating a guild and contribute a lot to farm tons of raid with only a few, thus getting tons of loot, money and guild coins.
    HOWEVER, it would not be limitless since the system is already protected byt the limit of 2x/day/player and less players means less people to clear stages so clearing would be way slower than for a guild of 30+ players obviously. Also they would still have that limit of 30 000/day.
    Finally, it could be countered by including in addition to this the #3 suggestion.

    3) Move/add a cooldown on resets by chapter

    So the idea would be to either just add a cooldown (for example if we combine with suggestion #2) or even get rid of the contribution system and move to a cooldown by chapter system.
    The idea would be pretty easy : from the moment you reset a chapter, you CANNOT reset again that same chapter until the cooldown is up. The cooldown could be for instance 48/72h (the figure is debatable and I haven't thoroughly thought about it but the important thing is the general idea, of course something like 5-7 days would be terribad and even worse than current system).

    The idea behind that is to limit the amount of how farmable a same chapter is, to limit the overall amount of money, loot and guild coins obtainable. The system is very simple and allows all guilds to have to chance to play on all the chapters from time to time, without breaking the balance by overfarming some stages.

    The good :
    - A chance to play on all of the chapters from time to time because it's fun : more content available for more fun
    - Prevent abusive farm and does not create inbalance

    The bad :
    - If chosen at a solution alone, well would abandon the current system of contribution in guild and encourage some laziness in guild ... well not that much of a problem

    4) Reducing cost of low chapters under certain circumstances

    Well this one is pretty easy to understand. Basically, the aim is when you complete the chapter within X hours (I would guess the 7 days with the bonus), the cost to reset that chapter would be reduced. I would advise at -50% or -33%.
    And, in addition to that, if you complete within half of the first condition (so 3 days and a half), you get a further reduction of -75% or -66%.

    The good :
    - If you are good at some chapters and you are able to clear them quite fast, it means you got no real interest in loot of that raid, but going again into those chapters can still be fun. Low reward for low cost, fair enough.

    The bad :
    - Would provide a way to get guild tokens crazy fast if guild contribution is high enough.
    I would advice to pair that solution to the one with the cooldown on reset.

    5) Revamping the whole system of guild contribution

    Instead, you would get contribution points feeding a guild XP. Guilds would be able to level up thanks to this XP.
    Earning levels would get you passive rewards like "+2% gold in guild raids" (and then onward up to like 20% for instance) at some tiers.
    You would also get more active big rewards that you would have to unlock (currency would be the question : gold ? contribution ? something new ? That leaves to be examined).

    Among these unlocks (and it could give so many more others) you could have something like reducing cost of resetting all raids (10 % ? 20% ? ....) or specific raids (chapter 7 by 20%, up to 60% for instance and the same for each chapter).
    Or it would be an alternative : the choice
    - when resetting to current system (pay contribution play immediately)
    - reset for free but put a cooldown on the next reset (even if you are willing to pay the next one). Cooldown would be pretty big at first like 7 days (obtainable fast) and would decrease over levels down to 3-2 days max.

    This solution is the most complex and difficult one to create but gives almost unlimited possibilities for small/big rewards, examples :

    - Amount of gold obtained in guild raids : +2% ... +20%
    - Amount of gold obtained in crusade : +1% .... +10%
    - Amount of xp earned through fights/potions : +2% ... +20%
    - Gives a random chance 2% ... 20% to have a loot doubled in guild raids
    - Allows to hire a (same or not) mercenary from the guild : 2/day ... 3/day (instead of 1) --> would totally make sens as a major upgrade of guild teamwork
    - Loots in time rift/trials +2% .... +20%

    Etc ...

    The good :
    - Crazy whole system with almost unlimited possibilities
    - Reward cohesion, teamwork and loyalty of players to a guild
    - The most comprehensive, fairest system and possibility to expand it at will

    The bad :
    - Very hard/complex/long to create
    - ????


    And that's it guys, finally, congratulations if you've read it all !
    I hope I didn't waste my time in it and we can hopefully have constructive discussion about it and why not seeing one of the changes adopted in the future

  2. #2
    Platinum Member Contributor Level 8 Se7en Strife's Avatar
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    I thank you for your suggestions, and I like the last one regarding guild level especially.

    Though all I feel needs to be changed for the better is mainly an increase in contribution cap per person as well as an reduction in points needed for resets. Perhaps higher guild lvl can mean reduced % of pts needed for a chapter reset?

    Anyway good ideas. I can see you thought through some of them a lot. One of the few constructive threads in suggestions in a long time.
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  3. #3
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    They should just allow 1 free guild raid reset on Sunday

  4. #4
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    I like the change to guild contribution and as well the cool down, but tbh, the idea of tony provides a much simpler solution which would be so easy to implement
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  5. #5
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    Easier to implement, yeah, however it's more of a temporary bandaid fix than a real and effective redesign.
    Fact is people will just keep it to reset higher chapter levels, so they will still not be able to do other chapters, they'll just do the same even more.

    What I want to bring with this is ways to have access to different chapters more often (not always, more often, so more often than "never")

  6. #6
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    I also want to suggest , put a queue list in raid battle. So everyone can sure when his time to enter the battle screen. I just found out that this is very important..

  7. #7
    Silver Member Contributor Level 5 haru18's Avatar
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    well thought OP. I like the idea about some way to do past raid again. But i think the cool down idea is a bit hard to implement because diversity in the guild speed to clear and obtain contribution points. You can say that 2-3 days but in the late 90 it can hinder the progress of let's say chap 13 and 14 reset due the cool down. So it's kinda hard to tell how long the cool down is "suitable".

    For the number 5 option. I really really like it :3. This way people will be more loyal to the guild because the get the rewards that not every guild have. But yeah the whole guild system need a lot of preparation. This way people will value their guild more not just a place to "loot" and less saboteur come in and screw you up

    I have some pretty interesting idea too.

    - Guild Quest. If you can clear chapter x let's say 13 within 7 (tentative number) days you will get a free reset in chapter 9. If it's like too much guild coin you can delete the 7 days reward completion from the chap 9 or even cut the damage done ranks into half the normal raid reset. Well it's free reset we can't ask too much but the point is we can enjoy the past raid without neglecting raid matching our level. This is more like a "combo" quest so we still do the highest raid yet we can do the lower one too. (overall implementation : not that hard)

    - You can also make top 1-3 guild gain % bonus contribution (can exceed the cap) or some kind of reward that encourage competition on the ladder rather than just a piece of "proud" board, and 4-10 then 11-50 get some kind of reward too this can make competition more alive and boost in guild loyalty. (overall implementation : need some tweak regarding real time checking for the ladder but doable)

  8. #8
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    Hi y'all,

    I would like to also chip in my idea on this Guild Points Contribution matter.

    I had an idea about creating a second way for guild members to contribute to Guild Points, separated from the 600 pts/player/day from stamina usage (let's call this Exp Contribution for now).

    My idea is Gold Contribution:
    - A player can convert his / her gold into Guild Points. The ratio is 1,000 gold coins to 1 Guild Point (the ratio can be balanced)
    - Limit to 1,000 guild pts/player/day from Gold Contribution (the cap can be balanced)

    With this addition into the current system, I think it would make the game more dynamically interesting because it rewards a player who can smartly manage his important resources (e.g. gems, and gold), and create more ways to spend gold. Right now, we spend gold for the following things: hero star upgrades, skill point upgrades, buy items from shops, Enchantments, and Bronze Chests.

    The new Gold Contribution would make a player to be more strategic on spending Gold. For example:
    - Do I need that hero to be 4* today or I need the gear in raid more?
    - Am I benefit from that one extra skill points now or I rather have the extra guild points?
    - Should I spend it on fragments or I should convert them into guild points to reset the raids I queue on?
    - Is it better to enhance gears now or the extra raid drop would help me more?
    - Spend 10,000 gold for a bronze chest drops or 10 guild points that may be needed?

    I calculate that with my current suggested number. A player can spend max 1 million gold for 1,000 guild point daily. That is a significant amount of gold coins since it is about 50% of crusade income for some players. In the grand scheme, a player can now contribute 1,000 guild pts from Gold Contribution + 600 guild pts from Exp Contribution = 1,600 Guild Pts. If a guild with all 50 active members, it can gain maximum 80,000 guild pts/day, which can barely reset a high level chapter once a day. Keep in mind there is still a cap of 200,000 guild pts/guild. The cap will somewhat ensure that VIP players in the guild won't be able to spam up Gold Contribution daily because Guild Point Gold Contribution will be wasted if the limit is reached.

    ( Please create a way for guild leader can see the list of guild points contribution from all the guild members)

    Lastly, this will highly reward the coordinated guild. Hence, guild members will force to communication which each other, creating stronger bonds between guild mates, more guild loyalty; therefore, it will create better community for everyone.

    The above is my brain storm, suggestions are welcome.

    P.S. Se7en, I finally get off my lazy phone and signed up to post this idea in the forum. =P

  9. #9
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    Pretty sad there aren't more discussion/feedback about it, I feel it's a major issue concerning available content to players.
    Improving this could improve the amount of content available to players, even in endgame.

    I also like your idea of guild quest Haru, an interesting one
    Your 2d one is like my last one, that of a guild improving, giving benefits to its members.

    The gold contribution, yeah, that could also be an interesting idea but it would be too easy to get tons of points with high level players and would not require gems so I can guarantee you 100% ucool would never do that ^^

  10. #10
    Silver Member Contributor Level 5 haru18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kratosangel View Post
    I also like your idea of guild quest Haku, an interesting one
    dude it's haru not haku -_-

    Quote Originally Posted by kratosangel View Post
    Your 2d one is like my last one, that of a guild improving, giving benefits to its members.
    yeah it's similiar with your 5 (make a bond within guild), but what i think it's different from yours is your system need a revamp to the whole system whilst mine can be done we just a few tweak to the available ladder board. With ladder board update with new ranking the bonus we obtain from the raid also changes. This factor can improve member activity to compete with others and also i think it can an edge for devs to make a server more "live" (i had read somewhere in this forum some server are considered "dead", almost no activity)

  11. #11
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    Bump for justice (and especially for feedback/answers)
    Sorry Haru I edited my previous post ^^

  12. #12
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    Bump for more visiblity and discussion about it. Guild raids loots are bugged on boss stages so less loots and we have more higher level chapters which cost more but we can't earn more ...

  13. #13
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    Thing is, they never listen to ppl suggestions...
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  14. #14
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    Yup, they completely ignore feedback and issues and then they wonder why people post issues in "development journal" or others in announcements. That's the only section they care to read so ..

  15. #15
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    I agree. Plus all members have to be able to reset the quest.

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