CASINO predetermined??

[<CSN>dilatarecom]

Wondering if Evony could clarify whether the Casino is random or already a predetermined outcome before we spin.

Just that today I made the following observations:

Started to spin and as it was slowing down and looking to stop on something poor, I closed the casino before it stopped.

After I refreshed and opened up the casino again, the board was different but the same item was on the board but in a different place.

I spun again and it looked to be slowing/ stopping onto the very same poor item. I closed the casino again before it actually stopped.

So, I did this process many times and every time the casino looks to be stopping onto that same item. No matter how many times I refresh, this item is always there and I am predetermined to win that very item.

Now, my problem with this is that we players will obviously hope for a purely random chance of winning what ever is on the board each time we spin. In the vain hope of winning 1000k, 20k 30k gems etc.

The casino isn't a gamble at all sadly, we're all doomed to win what Evony say's so

Surely this is misselling and misleading your paying customers. I wonder how many folk have spent real cash thinking they were gambling on the outcome of the casino eh.

I hope you don't simply just remove this and instead seek to clarify or rectify the issue

[<0BS>Gooseman]

Wheel of Furunes and Casino in Evony have always been pre-determined, the actual wheel is just for show. As soon as you click spin a random number is generated that selects your prize, the wheels spins for a while for show then stops on that item. It has to be that way to prevent hack programs from manipulating it. The server tells you what you won, you do not tell the server what you won. You do not get to reject your prize and try again on the same free spin, or obviously everyone would do that every day until they win what they want. Once your random prize is set for the day it is set for the day. That does not mean though it is not random, only that you don't get 2nd tries at on the same "dime". Have news for you though, real casinos are the same way these days. Slot machines are electronic and you win/loss is determined as soon as you press the button. The spinning/bells/whistles are just for show.

[<TLS>Algona]

Agreed with Gooseman. Given the numerous ways we players have figured to game the fame, 'twould be awful silly of Ucool to allow us to respin when heading towards lousy prizes.

[<CSN>dilatarecom]

I agree also, I wouldn't expect to be able to have another go if I didn't like the outcome, that was more of a by-product/ observation of me being annoyed and trying to close the casino. I wasn't actually expecting to be able to close it down whilst spinning.

My point really is that the result is predetermined before you even spin.

What I would like to test, is to open up the casino and make a note of the prizes, but do not spin then refresh the game. Do that enough times and I bet you can predict the result without a single spin. All this being said, the casino is not a game of chance that it's advertised as.

Plus the drop rate of gems is terrible now since the wheel was "turned down" 2 days ago

[<TEK>Seganku]

One thing I did observe over many hundreds of spins, was that the 20k/30k gems were showing far more frequently than they were being won. For example, with 15 spots on the wheel, a random spin should have a 1:15 chance of winning a shown item. For 15 spins with that item showing, there should be a fairly good chance of that item being won. This is not the case. The 20k/30k clearly only show as "bait" and have nowhere near an equal chance of being won.

[<*R*>Meeseeks]

They were probably being nice for the first few days, as they have done with every other thing they've released that was exceptionally great to start. Then, they nerfed it as they now saw the prize output being too good for the cost. As you're well aware, every possible method of getting resources easy gets shut down one way or another. I still can't believe they did that to the orders. The one thing from Closed Beta that was actually useful and it gets torn down and replaced with something that costs more to do and gives less. I mean, it was already a pretty close relationship, wherein it paid just a bit more than it cost to complete. But now, twelve star medals, forty saboteurs and six thousand gold for a payout of sixty thousand goods and gold and anywhere from 150-1150 credits? So far, none of the orders have been anywhere close to breaking even. It's costing us to upgrade our generals, and it already cost us to even level them up through fighting.

[<CSN>Chateroon]

Agree Bolero,

The down-grading of orders doesn't seem to make any sense from Evony's perspective.

Plus they are giving an unfair advantage to experienced players with Generals already pretty well maxed.

That is unfair to newer players - shame on you Evony.

[<TEK>Seganku]

Games will always seem unfair to newer players. I feel this has been mostly rectified by increasing the realm protection period to 3 months.

[<TPG>Grom]

How do you know this to be true? Did a Ucool person tell you this?

Wheel of Furunes and Casino in Evony have always been pre-determined, the actual wheel is just for show. As soon as you click spin a random number is generated that selects your prize, the wheels spins for a while for show then stops on that item. It has to be that way to prevent hack programs from manipulating it. The server tells you what you won, you do not tell the server what you won. You do not get to reject your prize and try again on the same free spin, or obviously everyone would do that every day until they win what they want. Once your random prize is set for the day it is set for the day. That does not mean though it is not random, only that you don't get 2nd tries at on the same "dime". Have news for you though, real casinos are the same way these days. Slot machines are electronic and you win/loss is determined as soon as you press the button. The spinning/bells/whistles are just for show.

[<SAN>Serbon]

id like feedback regarding spinning,i have spent probably about 500$ worth of gems for casino,what i noticed it stops some 80% of the time on chest.ok,that wasnt my worst observation,as you click to collect item,i notice there are also gems in option to win in that chest,sadly i have not seen that eventhou i won 100s of them chests so just wondering if anyone accualy got gems of them or is it 1 of rarely scams and tricks evony perform?

[<TLS>Algona]

Well, it's sorta scammy. Just like any gambling in a casino is a scam. The games are always rigged in favor of the house. If a player figures out an advantage (such as card counting in blackjack) the house will change the rules or not let the player play.

If it's any consolation, Ucool kinda blew it the first couple days, gem payouts were high enough that players were winning enough gems to buy enough chips to go infinite. Pity they reseeded the odds.

[<KAR>mfb.]

As soon as you click spin a random number is generated that selects your prize, the wheels spins for a while for show then stops on that item.

The hypothesis is that the prize gets determined even before you hit "spin".

My data collection has 58 spins now (all after the probable change of the wheel), and it is clear that the wheel is biased towards chests and other bad results. Chest numbers varied from 0 to 5, with an average somewhere between 2 and 4. I also made a "jackpot" category with the best possible results, so 27*100k general xp, 12 realm ports and so on. 0 to 3 jackpots were present each spin, with an average somewhere between 1 and 2. All wheels had the 100 gems of course, and most of the time I spun the wheel with an additional gem prize shown. The result?
23 chests got picked. Significantly more than you would expect from a fair wheel (~8-15).
0 jackpots got picked. Significantly less than you would expect from a fair wheel (~4-8).
0 gems got picked. Significantly less than you would expect from a fair wheel (>4).
The 35 other results were the usual things - some general souls, some junior influence items, a lot of double general exp, some coin/good items.

[<TLS>Algona]

Good post, mfb. A decent sample size.

The results don't surprise me, I'd be surprised if Ucool had a balanced, equally weighted prize distribution. The wheel of torture is a cash garnering gimmick. Which is fine, because it's an optional gimmick.

[<KAR>mfb.]

Needs confirmation, but I found some evidence that the result of a wheel gets determined at the time you get the previous result.

What I would like to test, is to open up the casino and make a note of the prizes, but do not spin then refresh the game. Do that enough times and I bet you can predict the result without a single spin. All this being said, the casino is not a game of chance that it's advertised as.

Did that. First time the refreshs eliminated everything but two chests, and I got a chest. Second time 6 refreshs eliminated everything apart from 2 chests and 4*double general xp. This double xp survived 10 refreshs in total, and I got... guess what. The double general xp.

To test: Does this pre-determined result change at midnight when spinning gets free again?

Edit: Had 30k gems that were still there after I refreshed, and then the casino slowed down towards them and ... picked the 5*10k goods next to it.